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What Could Be More Terrifying?

Stories of the Lost has been far too long neglected. I couldn't be more excited about the prospect of diving back into this blog with the commencement of Season 3 of LOST on October 4. Check back here for reflections (and hopefully discussions) about the more meaningful, personal applications of the character developments and themes from each new episode of the show.

"They are free from the world, free from their pasts, they finally have a chance to discover who they really are...what could be more terrifying than that?"

This sentance from the Lost Season 3 promo gave me chills. It made me think of the trailer for next summer's Spiderman 3 ("The greatest battle lies within"). Truly, there are few things more disturbing than confronting the reality of the darkness within yourself. It is one thing to be free from the world and from your past but to be freed from yourself? Now that is a trick. What will happen? What will it take for the Losties to find freedom from their own depravity? Moreover, what will it take for us to find freedom from the things about ourselves that keep us from being everything that we know we are meant to be?

All of the latest promos for Season 3 end with the phrase "Find Yourself...Lost". Have you found yourself? Have you found yourself lost?


Blogger belly0fdesire said...

I really like this post. A ways back I was on the wrong track. There wasn’t any other way to look at it. My choices reflected total disregard for myself or those around me who really cared about me. It was a downward spiral that just kept getting worse and worse and the more people would try to intervene, the more I would resist and the worse my “condition” would get. No matter how bad I got, none of the people in my life ever gave up on me… though my demise was truly packaged in my giving up on myself… Eventually, buried within all the chaos and pain I was bringing on myself, I had a moment of clarity, where I realized that regardless of what I had done to myself, or how much I had failed or let down those who depended on me, I still had an entire lifetime to put forth my best effort and that if I were truly as strong as I had at one time believed, then I would never give up… and I realized that even though I didn’t care about the amount of pain I inflicted on myself, I wasn’t taking into consideration the amount of pain I was inflicting on others, which is something I still cared about… something had to change.

I had built quite a lifestyle, which was hard to get out of, but I conquered of all the “demons” keeping me in that lifestyle and holding me back from living a full life…(fear of failure, temptation, addiction, etc…). Those “demons” still lurk… I can feel them there… Always there… One thing I know for certain is that they will always be there… lurking, tempting me… and urging me to just give in and give up… but know I will always be strong enough to defeat them. And I WILL be the best belly0fdesire that I can become…. All that I was created to be… Regardless of what the “demons” say.

Hope this is fitting to this topic… I just really wanted to comment something worth while…

9/13/2006 3:57 PM  
Blogger belly0fdesire said...

btw, I still don't think I've found myself... but I think what's more important is that I haven't given up looking... and I'll never give up looking again... but I don't think I'm lost either... somewhere in between maybe? hmmm :/

9/13/2006 4:09 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

Exactly the type of authenticity that I was hoping would develop within this group of LOST fans. We live so much of our lives "on the surface" with people, that webs of acquaintances rarely develop into communities of friends. Even though our "community" is online, I still believe that significant connections can be forged. Live together, die alone right?

It was a risk for me to put together this blog but it was an even bigger risk for you to be the first to comment the way you did. I sure hope others follow suit.

9/13/2006 4:51 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

Since belly had the courage to share about his "demons", I thought I'd come back here for a second to comment about why this blog and this post are so important to me...

Re: The line from the promo. I understand the terror that one feels when he discovers who he really is. Maybe terror isn't the best word...maybe shame, disappointment, fear, despair...maybe those are better words. I have "found myself" in stages. I found myself when I was 10 years old and I realized that I was a shameless follower who dressed and talked like everyone else and lived to please the crowd...at that time, I discovered that when it came to my own path, I was found to be completely lost. I found myself when I was 19, when I first realized that my parents weren't perfect and that simply filling their shoes and pleasing them wasn't going to make me the person I wanted to be...at that time, I discovered that when it came to my own path, I was found to be completely lost. I found myself when I was 23 and I took my first job out of college and I was completely overwhelmed, ill-equipped, and feeling all alone in a new city with lots of new responsibilities...bouts of anxiety and attacks of panic left me feeling like I was more completely lost than ever.

I have to be honest. While some might consider this trite or ignorant or preachy, this is really my experience. Each time I have ever found myself to be totally lost in life, I have consistently found hope, direction, and clarity in my Christian faith. The words of the Bible have time and time again spoken messages of comfort into my deepest pain and offered forgiveness when I needed it the most. I have also found a purpose and a direction that helps me feel less and less lost every day.

I know me well enough to know I haven't arrived but I do feel like I know where to look...To be honest again, this a good feeling because it is the feeling of hope.

9/13/2006 5:25 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

Oh yeah, and to relate this to Lost (sort of). My favorite characters are the ones that show the most consistent glimmers of hope. Rose, Bernard, Charlie, Eko, Locke (version 1), etc. I hate it when they lose their faith and I'm afraid more crises and disillusionments are coming. :( When these guys lose hope, who is going to fill that void? I'm really curious to see how A) the Others and B) The fail-safe event affect the conditions and mood of the island.

I also have (probably too much) hope for my faves like Jack, Sawyer, and Kate and I see the potential for redemption and I see them getting so close to being everything that they could be. Will we ever get to see our heros truly be heros? That's what I love about Spiderman...we get to see his crisis but then we get to see him overcome and shine.

Okay, that's enough for tonight.

9/13/2006 5:33 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Wow! Belly! Thanks for sharing. You've come through quite a journey already. If I may ask, how do you know you will always be strong enough to defeat the "demons?"

Admin: You too! I love hearing more of people's stories.

First, I'd like to comment about favorite characters. Mine are Sun and Jin. It's an amazing miracle when a difficult marriage turns around. They are truly redefining themselves and what it means to be together. I hope TPTB don't have something truly disastrous in store for them, but knowing TV, probably so. Still it would be nice and unique for TV to portray a marriage really coming through. Some people really do get true love some of the time.

9/14/2006 5:58 AM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

So answering the question about finding yourself lost...I don't know how to share without telling a lot of details so I just will. :-)

At 13 I hit a major crisis that caused me to have to figure out what I believed and what I was going to do about it. My father was a pastor and taught me about God as a child. He answered (with the very *long* answers he was known for) all my questions about God and faith, and he encouraged me. But stuff was building in his life carried over from his past.

When I was 13, he had an accident that laid him up in the hospital. All the frustrations and interpersonal conflicts he was having came to a head. Net result was he decided to stop being a pastor and to stop believing in God. We also stopped going to church as a family.

So I had to ask myself, "What do I do now?" Do I believe in God just because my family did? Who am I to be? Eventually I decided to go to church by myself (my dad agreed to drive me) and pursue knowing God on my own.

This was hard because not only did I have to follow God by myself, without the help of my family, but I also was made fun of for doing it. Not too many kids get picked on for praying or grounded from church when they don't clean their room, huh?

God was with me during this and grew me through it. This experience pretty much shaped the way I am today. Thankfully the story doesn't end there.

The year I left for college, my dad was diagnosed with prostrate cancer. Facing the challenges of radiation and an uncertain future, he returned to God again and worked out his issues. Neither of us was perfect and our relationship certainly wasn't, but God gave us 12 more years before he passed away to restore the years that were lost. I cannot tell you how grateful I am, even for the bad parts.

That's not the only time I've had a Lost/Found moment, but certainly one of the most momentous in my life. Hope it wasn't TMI.

9/14/2006 6:15 AM  
Blogger Thrasher76 said...

WOW!! All of you are amazing people. I find myself envying all of you for the strength and hope that you all posses. My story is not so awe-inspiring but I think it will shed some light on who I am and who I hope to be.

I married my high school sweet heart at the age of 22 in 1998. I moved up the corporate ladder as did my spouse, Lisa. We had a great home, new cars, and a bunch of material things at the age of 24. In 2002 Lisa and I were going to start a family. We had hit some stumbeling blocks along the way, the largest of them was how it affected her mentally. Lisa had been given a harmone treatment to help her heal from endometriosis and in that process it affected her mentally. She becaome physically ill and not one doctor could tell us what was causing her to be sick. It became apparent to one doctor that she was severely depressed. It was a bad situation, which came first the depression or the sickness. Lisa attempted suicide at least 8 times in the next 3 years and spent a total of 10 months in mental institutions. I stood by my wife during all of thses times but it made me weary and drained the life out of me. It was not the life I had envisioned for us. I began to feel as if I was being brought down as well. I also thought I was in some way an enabler to Lisa's illness. My decision to divorce Lisa was in some peoples eyes a blessing. And it was a decision that took me well over a year to come to terms with and then share with her.

After many months of reflection and council with friends and family my decision to divorce Lisa was the only option that could change both of our lives around. A year and a half ago I came to the conclusion, one that I had come to me many years before but I felt like I was tied down to material things and could not make the decision that I had to leave and find myself and what made me happy. It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. My divorce was finalalized this past February.

Lisa and I can still talk in a civil manner and she has pulled herself, to some degree, out of the darkness that was surrounding her. It was, in my opinion, almost like me leaving her was a good thing for her. It made her rely soley on herself. Lisa had to fix herself and not rely on someone else. That is the hardest thing to understand when confronted with depression. The depressed person is the only one that can make things change. She is in a relationship and is doing things her and I never did. She is living her life.I am very happy for her. It is hard not to care or love a person that you shared half of your lifetime with.

I also have figured out to some degree, me. And what I want for myself. I was very fortunate to have found someone to share it with and Melissa and I are getting married in December of this year. She is my soulmate. If you would like to read about how the two of us got together go to our blog .

My experience with suicide and depression has shown me how frieghtening the mind can be. But I also feel as though I was tested and my current happiness is the in someway related. Depression is an evil thing and I do not feel that medicine is the answer and the sad state of our medical system causes many people to never get better. There were many times Lisa was discharged not because she was better but because the insurance had run out. People do not understad depression and end up throwing medicine at the problem and that is like throwing dried leaves on a fire to put it out. Depression is in my mind very similar to addiction, the afflicted person has to want to get better.

I am sorry to have wrote such a long post but it was necessary. I hope that it convey's the hardest of times in my life accurately.

9/14/2006 12:07 PM  
Blogger Thrasher76 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/14/2006 12:08 PM  
Blogger oxillini said...

i whole-heartedly agree with twinkle regarding the redemption of sun and jin's marriage. my wife and i separated about this time last year and it was absolutely devastating. we continued to talk civilly and about four months later she moved back in. i feel like both us really grew up a lot in that heart-wrenching period and our marriage now is far stronger than at any point in the previous four years of marriage. the rebirth of a relationship when it is pushed to the brink of collapse and pulled back to safety is pretty miraculous. i was pulled into lost for the geekiness of it, the mythology and science. i think what is keeping the show alive (on a major network at primetime no less) is the mix of geekosity and genuinely compelling storytelling.

regarding the redemption of characters, one thing i have found through my own wanderings through life is that redemption is not necessarily a one-time miracle. i know from experience what it is like to have a "what am i doing?" moment resulting in a new outlook and path in life. years go by and sometimes you can lose sight of that path you had set out on. again, you take stock of things, set your mind on where you want to go and adjust your bearing accordingly. life, to me, seems like a series of corrections to ones path, some are minor, some are major, but the meandering path this results in is what makes life interesting.

9/14/2006 1:03 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

thrasher: What a tough decision you had to make! Endometriosis and the resulting emotional turmoil that often accompanies it is a very difficult thing. I have not experience it but I love people who have.

ox said: i have found through my own wanderings through life is that redemption is not necessarily a one-time miracle.

I agree. Grace is a day by day thing.

9/14/2006 1:15 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

thrasher: Neat story on your blog about you and Melissa meeting. Is Maven, your cat, named after TLEC Maven?

Thanks for sharing your story. The desire to have somone to connect souls with is so strong and the work to keep it that way is so difficult. May God bless your marriage to Melissa.

ox: It's good to hear of a relationship able to pick up the pieces. May you continue to grow stronger.

9/14/2006 1:30 PM  
Blogger oxillini said...

thanks twinkle.

9/14/2006 2:18 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

Ox: Good to see you over here! What an encouraging story of reconciliation. Thanks for sharing. Also, I agree that redemption isn't exactly a one time miracle. As a Christian, I believe that redemption was bought for me once and for all and have trusted in that redemption for my eternal destiny (I know, heavy stuff...). However, it's my choice each and every day whether or not I will let the redemptive work of Christ influence my life...whether or not I wan to live like a redeemed person or continue in the destructive patterns of my past. One of my biggest frustrations with people of faith today is that too many people take the label "Christian" and forget that they are still in need of redemption. Inauthenticity is rampant...

Twinkle: Speaking of inathenticity...thanks for sharing about the season of disillusionment that your father went through. I am encouraged to see that your relationship was restored before it was too late. It is clear that your faith is real because you truly took the opportunity to make it your own.

Thrasher76: Dude. So much I want to say. Thank you for being vulnerable. I'm sorry for what you've been through. I'm happy for you finding Melissa but sad that you've lost Lisa. Your story is compelling and powerful and I was quickly caught up in the drama. It was nice hearing the details about what you learned from Lisa but I'd love to hear more about what you've learned about yourself...

This is so cool. I love the geekiness that Oxillini spoke of, but this stuff is REAL. :)

9/14/2006 8:33 PM  
Blogger Thrasher76 said...


Some of the things that I have found out about myself is that I am stronger and also weaker than I knew I was. I am stronger in the fact that I was able to be someone's rock and foundation. But at the same time I was weak in that I could not continue to be that foundation. I found what I was missing in my life, me.

I was in fact not happy with my life for some time during my first marraige. I let myself be controlled to the point that I did not see my good friends or do the things I really enjoyed unless I was given approval. I had lost the person I was. There is something to be said of the humility I found having to move back in with my father after 12 years of being on my own. To have to abide by his rules again. I had many long heart to hearts with my father during this time. I felt like I had let my family down as well as myself. It was humbling. I felt humility, shame and resentment for letting everything that we had worked hard for slip away. I wondered if I was being selfish, but soon realized that I was not. I was in a dark place. But I had set out on this path and I was not going to turn back. Just as falling in love takes two people it also takes two people to fall out of love. There were many things that could have been done over time to turn the marraige around. But hind sight is twenty-twenty. Lisa is actualy getting better and standing on her own and has found someone to share her life with again, I am happy for her. I hope she continues to get better and find out who she is as well.

I found out what makes me happy, being me with no restraints or rules. Being able to just be myself and not pretending to be the person others want me to be. It is liberating! Being on my own was amazing and yet somewhat scary at first. But I gained confidence when people I hardly knew rallied around me. I am a good guy, a funny guy, a strong person. Hearing that from literally complete strangers really lifted me up.

Most of all I found the one person that connects with me on levels I cannot even begin to describe. Not being an emotional person it is very difficult for me to describe the feelings of joy and happyness that Melissa have brought into my life. I am who I am and she loves me for all that I am. It may sound silly and a little bit cliche but she is my soulmate and she completes me.

9/15/2006 6:55 AM  
Blogger Administrator said...


Very cool. Once again, thanks for sharing. It's sounds like you've had quite a ride so far. Haven't we all! :) One of the coolest things about Lost is the flashbacks. We get to see characters finding themselves in stages and I think this gradual revelation is art imitating life at it's finest. I hope none of us every stop discovering who we were, who we are now, and who we will be.

Oh, and if you want my two cents...People have told you that you are a good guy, a funny guy, and a strong person...I would like to add "faithfulness" to that list. Through your story I saw how you showed faithfulness to Lisa as best you could during a very difficult time. Personally, I have been so impressed by the way you have been such a faithful servant of this online community by steering conversations and working tirelessly to maintain a beast of a project on a completely volunteer basis. Trustworthy, consistent, steady...faithful.

9/15/2006 9:30 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

i certainly agree regarding the flashbacks. as i said earlier, what brought me to the show was the science and mythology. i viewed the flashbacks and love affairs as a silly distraction from the hatch(es) story they should be telling. however, a few episodes later, the show began to come into better focus and i began to realize how brilliantly written it is. the relationships and flashbacks are not fluff or filler in a sci-fi show, they are character development in a drama. without understanding eko's background, one could not possibly go along with the "?" episode. i would have dismissed it as rubbish. and seeing charlie's flashbacks transforms him from a "junkie" stereotype, a one dimensional cardboard cutout of a character, into a real person. the writers of this show have a clear message they want to deliver regarding redemption and faith. while i applaud that, this is not the first show with a message to deliver. what i applaud is their ability to weave this message into an enthralling tapestry.

9/15/2006 10:12 AM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Thrasher: I'm butting in with a womanly idea I know, but the feeling with which you write about Melissa has gotten to me. You do not know what it does to us to have our men profess their love for us!

I assume that you've told Melissa what you tell us about your relationship. If I may suggest that you write a few letters, one to her and maybe one to yourself, that you can open in 2 years and maybe another set to open in 5 years or 10 or something. Or go gang busters and write a bunch for all the big anniversaries. Another application of this idea is to write her a letter like that on your wedding day before the ceremony and then give it to her on some anniversary.

Tell her in the letter how you feel right now, what you see in her that you admire, what your hopes are for the future. You may say it all the time now, but our hearts forget so quickly that our men love us when life gets routine. If you write one for yourself, write it to remind yourself of what you love about her and what things you were doing together. It may become important fodder for encouraging you in a tough spot later in your marriage or simply for ideas to use when planning your anniversary celebration.

BTW, I use this with my kids too. I write them a letter (on my computer of course! :-) around the time of every birthday. I can't wait to show them later!

--Ok, butting out now!--

9/15/2006 2:02 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Ox: I'm glad you brought up Eko. He's a very intriguing character. Actually, he makes me really sad. In his past, he seems to so badly to have wanted to do and be the right thing. He chose to do something horrible to save his brother, but it makes me ask the same thing that Mittlework does, "It was good to save people, but was there another way?" Now I've probably offended somebody by likening Eko's childhood action to Mittlework, but I hope you agree that both men lead us to ask the same question.

So Eko makes a tough choice, saves his brother, and becomes someone he hates. This makes him feel both self-hatred and self-righteousness. That's the impression I got from the episode when he asks his brother to help him with the drugs. Coming from a religious background, I understand full well how self-hatred and self-righteousness work together.

So now he's on the island and has a chance to start over. He's repented. But then he continues to use some of his old tactics. By that I don't mean killing people for protection, I mean how he treats himself. He makes himself do harsh penance for his sins. Why does he dedicate himself to building the church, then later pushing the button? He believes both to be important. Does he also do it because he needs to feel he is sacrificing in order to know who he is?

TPTB have set up Eko like a prophet. Lostpedia points out that he's still in the clothes from the crash and they are tattered. He looks, speaks, and acts like a prophet.

But Eko's wisdom seems to be that of work. Forgiveness must be earned. We must sacrifice ourselves because of the mistakes of our past. We must work to be found worthy.

What Eko doesn't understand is grace. (sorry, gotta dash out. more later.)

9/15/2006 2:55 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/15/2006 5:34 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Not that I have a corner on grace or understand completely yet.

I'm trying to teach "grace" to my 4 year old son so when he gets older he'll understand what the Bible teaches about God's grace. We'll let him watch an extra TV show or give him something "just because" and tell him it’s grace, that he didn’t earn it but we’ll let him do it anyway. We like it to be a surprise, although it's ok sometimes if he asks nicely too.

So today at the dinner table he says, “I'm going to watch two DVD’s after dinner, one regular one and one for grace.” LOL! He still has some learning to do!

Grace, God's forgiveness freely given, would free Eko from his guilt and really help him start over. Maybe I'm waxing too theological, but that's what I think of whenever I watch Eko.

9/15/2006 5:37 PM  
Blogger oxillini said...

i think, to a degree, eko wants to martyr himself to attone for his past. he feels that by submitting himself to difficult tasks, he can "earn" forgiveness. i get the impression that eko would shoulder any load to "undo" his past. he set out to build that church by himself, with his bare hands. charlie (who has a boatload of redemption issues going on himself) joined the effort later. in "?", he believed God was speaking to him through visions of his brother (in my opinion). he would do anything he was told. it just so happens that he believes he was told to push the button and as we see in the finale, he will let nothing stop him from fulfilling that task. he respects locke but would knock him out to fulfill his "command" to push the button. i also think the reason he carved the verses (psalms, i think) on his stick is that he believes he can curb his violent nature by surrounding himself with the Word. just some of my opinions on eko. at this point in the series, i think he is the most interesting character, although charlie is another favorite of mine. no offense to other fans, but the kate/sawyer/jack triangle holds far less interest for me than either eko or charlie by themselves.

9/16/2006 9:23 AM  
Blogger Thrasher76 said...

David and Twinkle,

Thank you very much for reading my story and adding your welcomed opinions. I truly appreciate it all. And, Twinkle, I love that idea and may have to come up with a way to put it into motion!

Thanks again!

9/16/2006 12:40 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

ox: I'm with you. I don't really care who Kate picks. I like what you said, "he believes he can curb his violent nature by surrounding himself with the Word." There's truth in that. A lot of character change can occur by surrounding yourself with Scripture. Sometimes I wonder if I'm absorbing enough of it that I'll be prepared in case the written Word is taken away from me and I have to rely on my memory like so many have had to do before.

And those visions of his brother on the island, my theory is that it was the smoke monster projecting visions into his mind!

Feel free to share your insights into Charlie too. This is fun!

thrasher: You're welcome!

9/16/2006 5:59 PM  
Blogger oxillini said...

charlie is currently in my number two spot for "most interesting." i think charlie has enormous potential and will be central to the main theme of redemption. several times already he has been on a path to redemption, only to fall off. he was/(is?) a devout catholic who later found a stash of heroin filled Virgin Mary statues. he confronted his brother about his heroin addiction only to become addicted himself. he was thankful that locke helped him through beating his habit, but later helped sawyer kidnap sun so that he could "beat" locke. i'm not sure that he has truly hit bottom yet. he also seems to be somewhat co-dependent. he gloms onto someone and invests everything into his relationship with that person only to discard the cherished relationship at the sign of discouragement. he has attached himself to locke, claire, aaron and eko. i believe the writers have grandiose plans for charlie. his mother told him he was "special" and, while mothers say this to their children all the time, i think it is significant within this show. my long-term prediction for charlie is that throughout the total arc of the story, he will finally hit bottom in the second half of the series (i'm thinking he betrays someone in a monumental sense). following this, he genuinely sets out on his own path to redemption. in the epic series finale (and it had better be epic), everything hinges on charlie. he makes the right choice.

9/16/2006 8:54 PM  
Blogger Dr.Spongebob "Chris" Shephard said...

I still can't wait til Lost and Spider man 3

9/17/2006 1:14 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Ox: Interesting theory about the grand plans for Charlie. I wonder too how they're going to play on his tendency to attach himself to someone else. If he were a real person I'd say that he was wired for, i.e. has the gifts and talents for, some sort of helping, caring role in people's lives. But it gets twisted when he uses it to serve his own needs. It's not bad to be the sidekick unless it's only so you can feel needed.

Charlie is certainly taking detours and backtracking a lot on his road to redemption. I'm not sure what to think about him. He doesn't seem to know what to think about himself. That's probably the way TPTB intend it. And it goes without saying that coming out of depression, addictions, etc... is hard. Maybe Belly can give us some insight when he gets back. It's tomorrow, right? He might be so surprised at what his deep and courageous sharing started!

9/17/2006 5:01 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

I only have a second but I have to pitch in about Charlie. Season 1 Episode 7 - The Moth was one of my all time favorites. "Stuggle is nature's way of strengthening" I believe was the quote from Locke about the Moth having to struggle to emerge from the cocoon. I agree with the idea that Charlie is going to struggle more than any character but he is going to be more beautiful and strong in the end. Casual viewers who are uninterested in character development will be frustrated with Charlie's backsliding...However, struggle is a necessary part of his development. I hope we see him emerge from his cocoon healed and whole in the end.

The Jack, Kate, Sawyer thing...I'm way less interested in the "love triangle" than I am the individual character developments. Too much of hollywood focuses on romance when (IMHO) family of origin issues are far more interesting, engaging, relateable, and powerful (Garden State, Little Miss Sunshine, etc). Who cares about who Kate is going to hook up with?

This is really interesting convo. Two questions come to mind:
1. Is there anywhere else online where people are discussing the nuances behind character development in this manner?
2. Should we advertise this a little in the comments of TLEC or at least email invite some others to join us?

9/18/2006 5:17 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

admin: the struggles charlie goes through are why i think he will end up being at least one of the people they whole cast relies upon in the finale. tptb will make him the dark horse, somewhat in the background, having his highs and lows.

my thinking on love triangle is that it is standard fare to draw in the more casual fans. while the writing for this show is great, we can't forget that ad revenue ultimately drives everything. more fans = more money = more contract renewals. so if we have the occasional trite soap opera drama to keep the episodes coming. i can live with that.

regarding your questions:

1) i have looked around a little and never come across a discussion of the show and characters such as this. some others have started off meaning well, but quickly devolve into name calling and washed up theories (they're in purgatory, anyone?) so right now, you have a unique thing going as far as i know.

2) i'd say go ahead and do a little plug on tlec. i really don't think anyone over there would disrespect and honest discussion of the show, characters and personal issues. i think most of the tlec community would just move on if they're not interested in ths type of discussion.

9/18/2006 6:20 AM  
Blogger ular98 said...

As most of you are aware, I am older than most of you; a 60 yr. old grandmother. I have had all those years of finding my way and losing it again. The times I lost it was because I lost my way with the God I was raised to follow and obey. What ever your beliefs, if they are pure ones, they will keep you grounded and on a good path. I was married several times, but I finally found my "soul mate", almost 20 yrs. ago when I stopped looking for someone to keep me entertained and happy. I do a lot of volunteer work for my church, treasurer, bookkeeping etc. I would like to add, the church I attend is sponsering and acting in the production or "Heavens Gates and Hells Flames" and there was 138 professions of faith at the altar last night after the performance. It will continue for at least two more nights and we are praying for more of these results so keep us in your prayers, please.

9/18/2006 1:15 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

Wow! I'm overwhelmed with the responses here. It is so awesome to hear everyone's stories. The redemption theme of LOST is one of the reasons I stay tuned in. Also, I can echo that Charlie's and Eko's stories are probably my favorites as well.
As for myself, I was raised in a Christian home, went to church every Sunday, Wednesday nights, parents were very active in teaching, etc. I knew a lot about God and the Bible, and thought at a young age that I was giving my life to Him. I continued to "do" all the things that a good Christian should do, but it didn't seem to fulfill me at all. This combined with some of the hardships I was having at home, trying to constantly be who my parents wanted me to be, eventually led me down a path that was far from God. To be specific, I rejected God and thought what point was there to Christianity? I had tried it out and it didn't work. I continued down a path with the point to make myself happy, do what I want to do, be who I want to be, etc., but after a while I realized that that didn't keep me fulfilled either. About that time God used some people in my life to show me that what I had done before was just practice religion. I was a really good religious person, but religion alone doesn't fulfill. What God showed me was that He is the only one who can really fulfill me and give me the purpose that I was looking for, and it was through belief and faith in Jesus that I received forgiveness and grace to live the life that He has appointed for me. It's been a real struggle at times. I can relate to Thrasher's story- my husband and I went through a period of infertility, I struggle with depression, and 2 1/2 years ago we moved away from family and friends in Texas to Arizona where we knew no one. Within 6 months of moving I had my third child- all of whom were under 4 years old-
and my middle child was diagnosed with autism. Boy what a ride we've been on the past two years! Now my youngest son has been diagnosed with severe regulatory/sensory disorder and language delays. Motherhood is not at all how I planned it. My life right now is a shadow of what it used to be. I have sacrificed more than I ever thought I was capable. But it has only been through God's grace that I have gotten through one day. And His blessings are more than we can count. He is the only light that shines in our darkness sometimes. But I know that He is faithful, so I keep on seeking Him. And just like Charlie on the show, I hope that this process of life that I am going through will only make me more like the person God has planned for me to be.

Ok sorry that was so long- I've never been known for being succinct.

9/18/2006 1:56 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

ular98 & scoutpost,

Welcome and thanks for sharing! There are few things more compelling than the power of changed (or changing) lives. I'd love to know which female character on the show you feel like you can relate to the most and why. Would you mind sharing? I feel like, as a guy, I always get caught up in the development of the male leads and sometimes overlook/misunderstand the development of the female characters. What are the female characters terrified to discover about themselves?

9/18/2006 2:47 PM  
Blogger MR_Caffeine said...

33? Wow this season looks to be truly awesome!!!!!! Not to say that the first 2 werent but wow i cant wait!!!!!!!

9/18/2006 3:10 PM  
Blogger capcom said...

Admins, thank you for this special place to talk about the spiritual/philosophical aspects of Lost and relate them to our lives! A fantastic idea.

I'm in awe of everyones' stories and growth and candor. Looking at your life stories and my own, I agree that one of the greatest abilities that God gives us humans is the ability to change, fix, and improve our lives if we want to. In my life I have met a lot of people who don't believe that they can change, or they are afraid to change their circumstances, for many different reasons. What Admin mentioned about Locke's struggle line to Charlie is what scares us away, but I've found that once we take the first step into the fight and keep trying (and trusting the Lord), everything works out OK and improvement can happen. Joyce Meyer has a great way of explaining the point of actually having to put your foot into the problem before God's grace can really bless the situation, i.e. we have to do our part in the process as well if we want a breakthrough change in our lives.

My biggest problem throughout my youth, was that I never knew that I had that ability or option to improve, because as a child I was always told that I did not measure up to the perfect Christian ideal and would never change. So I spent a lot of youthful years wasting the critical times of my life, wandering aimlessly because I thought that I didn't deserve anything good in life. But God showed me that I wasn't a horrible person after all and that I could be whatever I wanted to to be, and I didn't have to settle for a sub-par life. What an epiphany that was! Since then I have been on a quest for improvement which has been a real blessing, and also to help other people who are lacking in self-esteem as I was, showing them that they can do it too.

The Lost series covers a lot of areas of self-esteem and courage, which is one of the reasons that I like it so much. And the creepy science. :-) I love Rose's conviction and courage, and even Ana Lucia's compelling urge to protect everyone that she felt was in her care on the island after the crash. I think that the show actually covers quite a lot of areas of the human condition that touch viewers differently, in their own soft spots or particular areas of soul searching. Which is why this blog was such a great idea!

9/18/2006 4:09 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Capcom, Ular, and Scoutpost, Welcome! Thanks for sharing more of your stories.

Capcom's story and Admin's question made me think of Kate. I think she's terrified she really is what everyone has made her out to be. From the abusive step-father, to the rejection by her mother, to the problems with the law, she's been demeaned her whole life. I think she's wondering if there's anything redeemable about her or if she's just what everyone expects her to be. She's caught between the noble and the criminal.

Maybe TPTB are going to play on this with Jack and Sawyer? In some ways her choice between them reflects her inner struggle about her own identity. But since Jack and Sawyer aren't fixed points, it complicates the matter. Jack has chosen actions since landing on the island that have moved him away from noble and towards brutal. Sawyer has had a few glimmers of nobility. How this will all play out?

9/18/2006 5:18 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

I totally agree with you Twinkle about Kate. I think her biggest worry is that there is nothing redeemable about her. I think she wants to believe that there is, that she is not a murderer or bad person at heart, that she is lovable, but she continues to get negative messages sent to her. At the end of the Long Con Sawyer told her that a tiger doesn't change it's stripes. I think she doesn't want to believe that but she is struggling with it. Sawyer I think is struggling with the same things, but has given up on himself. Kate hasn't completely given up on herself yet. It really will be interesting to see how this plays out in Season 3.

9/18/2006 5:44 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

As far as your question goes Admin- I think I identify with Sun and Rose the most. Sun had a powerful and controlling father from whom she had to break free, and then had to risk her marriage to really express her true self. My father was a pretty controlling person as well, and once I was on my own, I had to go through a period to really come into my own. I had to figure out who I really was and how to express myself. I've also been married long enough to have hit some rocky places in my marriage and have been able to pull through those like Jin and Sun. I like Rose's unswerving faith. Not that my faith cannot be shaken, I would never say never, but there have been numerous times that my faith has been put to the test- but God has always been faithful to show Himself to me in those times, to take care of me and bless me, so I know that I can always depend on Him and His character.

9/18/2006 5:54 PM  
Blogger capcom said...

Twinkle, that is true about Kate, I hadn't thought about her in that way yet. And she does seem in the middle of a choice between the Good Badguy, and the Bad Goodguy, since Jack's and Sawyer's personalities have morphed after being on the island, as you pointed out.

Kate's character also seems to be played as analyzing all the events and people as time on the island passes. She does seem to be someone who was never given a chance to be herself, and when she did take a stand (as far as we are led to believe) to protect her mother, the outcome wasn't a good one but she got a second chance after the plane crash without having to pay the consequences. She seems to be seeking in the island situations, ways to be more mature, helpful, and in charge of her life -- perhaps her own way of making restitution for what she did via trying hard to be a part of the solutions to any of their island problems.

I guess that's what the Fenry question in the S3 preview means too, that on the island, good people get the dubious opportunity to discover the not-so-good parts in themselves, while the bad people get the chance to redeem themselves. Which is of course what Locke was trying to say before he lost his faith. (I miss Boone, he was such a great student to Locke's philosopher!)

Locke has done a kind of 180/180 in his personality! So maybe he's actually a little ahead of the game than the other Losties evolution-wise. It will be very interesting to see if/how he recovers himself from his wrong actions and becomes strong again. I hope that he does because he was like Rose, a good lifter of spirits before he lost his cool.

A strange aspect of the flashbacks to me, is that everyone on the plane seemed to be already lost in many ways before they even crashed on the island, whether they were "good" or "bad" people (the typical "human condition" I suppose). Another reason why I miss Locke's philosophical pep talks, because he used to try to lift people up out of their self-made fog, as in helping Charlie. Fascinating stuff!

9/18/2006 5:55 PM  
Blogger capcom said...

Wow, Scoutpost, you are so right in your first paragraph about Sawyer, Kate, and changing stripes and their respective takes on that for themselves. I had forgotten that those words had been exchanged.

9/18/2006 6:01 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

Now as far as Claire is concerned...I am wondering if Aaron is some kind of "special" baby. I think there have been themes hinted at in the show that this may be true. What it means exactly I don't know. But I already think that Claire is struggling in the newness of being a young single mom, but I wonder if she will be put to the test further if Aaron is special somehow- will she be able to be a good mother to a baby that has a special purpose? Much like Mary the mother of Jesus. This was partially suggested in Charlie's dream (I forget which episode in Season 2- but the one that has his flashback). I think Claire will have more struggles ahead of her that will cause her to examine what she is made of.

9/18/2006 6:01 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

Capcom- I agree with you about Locke- I totally miss the wise philosophical Locke. I was watching Season 2- one of the last episodes, I think it was Three Minutes Ago or something like that- Locke was watching the group bury Ana Lucia and Libby from the beach- he cut the splint off his leg and got up and walked into the jungle. I really hope that signals the beginning of the return of the old Locke. Perhaps the faith that he had in the island and it's healing powers returned to him.

9/18/2006 6:06 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

BTW- Admin thanks for this blog and comments. It's really nice to hear everyone's stories and opinions. Nice to have something substantive to talk about while the ARG is slowing down.

9/18/2006 6:24 PM  
Blogger Aaronia said...

Dear friends – Thank you very much for this blog. I have discovered it today thanks to the link posted over at TLEC.

It’s more or less the kind of discussion I have been wanting to get into for a while, so that last April I decided to begin a blog with my reflections about Lost, with all the ideas that I got out of each episode in the second season. Even the aim of “Stories of the Lost”, as stated on its main page, resembles my own introductory post to my blog. The thing is that my mother language is Spanish, so my blog is in Spanish, and my country (Spain), as well as other Spanish speaking countries, get the show a bit belated in relationship with the US airdates; we just recently finished season two.

My blog has been visited regularly by people reading my posts every week, but I barely receive comments, so that it looks like a very long monologue. I have been thinking about translating my thoughts into English and begin an English blog, but I don’t really have time for that at the moment. So I guess I could just try to follow this beautiful blog of yours and just add my comments here and there, joining this interesting conversation.

Thank you all for the amazing sharing, I hope I’ll be able to share here my experience and thoughts regularly in the future. As for now, let my contribution be a link to this long essay of mine in Spanish, in case any of you guys are able (or even willing) to read it. I just thought you guys might want to know that some other people in other countries have tried to do something similar.

My blog: http://misteriosysorpresas.blog.com

(Comments in English would also be welcomed).

9/19/2006 4:58 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

great discussion on kate going on here. my thoughts on her is that she really needs to be left alone to discover herself a little more. she has enough issues to find her way through without the love triangle choices being forced on her. i wonder, though, whether she would stay away from jack and sawyer if they made no overtures toward her.

9/19/2006 8:00 AM  
Blogger capcom said...

Kate needs to read some of Eleanor Roosevelt's writings. ER said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." So basic, and difficult to argue with! ER grew up with severe self-esteem issues, and emerged as a woman, through striving to improve herself, who was strong-willed and accomplished many things. She faced herself and discovered who she really was (as Fenry says), so that she could change and improve herself to become a more productive human being, and boy did she.

Two other quotes of ER's that are my favorites are, "Courage is more exhilarating than fear, and in the long run it is easier", and "You must do the thing that you think you can not do." Awesome. Some of the other Losties could put some good use to practicing that as well, to break free of their sticky personal situations.

While I lived in Upstate NY, I visited the FDR and ER homes many times and gained a great deal of wisdom and inspiration from learning of their respective struggles in life and how they overcame them. Struggle really does make you a better person, and when we try to avoid it to take the easy way out, like Locke said, we actually lose out on a potentially valuable growing experience for ourselves. I used to be very fearful and look for the easy way around problems because I lacked the confidence that I could tackle them. But thankfully God showed me the better way to live, by studying how other strong people got over their hurdles in life.

9/19/2006 11:19 AM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Welcome, Aaronia! I read a little Spanish and would love to brush up so I'd be happy to take a look at your blog.

I agree Ox, that the best thing for Kate is to stay out of a love triangle.

Claire is another fascinating figure as you pointed out, Scoutpost. I don't know if TPTB did it on purpose but, as a reluctant mother of an unwanted child, they have set up an identity struggle for Claire that is endemic to humankind. Women seem to get generalized into one of two categories, the holy mother or the woman of ill repute. She is either to be respected and honored or she's an object to be used. Think about all the concepts surrounding the word, "Madonna."

This represents a key way in which women struggle for their identity. Are they pure and matronly or sleazy and sexual? The problem is that the choices are unfair! Neither category suits who we are, but the struggles of being woman, and all that is expected of us, are very real, especially during the stages of her life when she is neither a mother nor a lover.

Men get over-generalized too, but their categories are different. (Care to commen, guys?) I think it's one of the key ways in which our world is fallen. We expect people to fit into neat little categories instead of looking at who they really are. If God is real and he made us, then he's the only one who can "find" us and tell us who we are, who we were made to be. We are lost without that guidance.

Claire struggled with these identity issues during her pregnancy and is now embracing her role as Aaron's mother. But it irked me when they showed her as the Virgin Mary in Charlie's vision. I hope TPTB did it because they have more of her story to play out. Otherwise, they're just reinforcing the categorizing of a woman's identity.

9/19/2006 1:26 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Hey, ya'll, if my last post was too objectionable or forthright, I'd be happy to delete it. Or Admin can.

Claire is one of those characters I have to take with a grain of salt. I found becoming a mother, hey - being a mother!, completely changed my outlook on life and revamped who I thought I was. What with baby blues, learning to nurse, makeshift cloth nappies, and sand, sand everywhere!! there's a lot about Claire that TPTB are leaving out or making us assume is happening off screen. Who's teaching her how to take care of herself and the baby? We're not born knowing that.

I have to remember that as interesting as these characters are, they are only caricatures of people. As the personal stories on this blog show, the genuine articles are much more multi-faceted and amazing!

9/20/2006 5:48 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

twinkle: i certainly am not offended by your previous post. i started to respond but found that i was basically just saying "i agree." so i didn't post it. your comment about madonna is very interesting. brings images of the two most disparate examples of what you were talking about!

9/20/2006 6:33 AM  
Blogger maven said...

All I can say right now is: WOW! What a great place to really delve into multiple layers of LOST! Every comment has been well-thought out and thought provoking. LOST is like an onion with many layers that need to be peeled away.

I guess I've lived a great life and had few worries or problems. I've been married 34 years to a wonderful man who has given me everything I ever wanted out of life. The only "glitch" has been infertility. It was a tough 10 years going through that, but the end result was a fantastic son whom we adopted as a baby. He has turned out to be a fine young man who is now a Police Officer with the LAPD. We couldn't be more proud of him!

Anway, just to be put in a few thoughts about the various characters on Lost: The umbrella theme of good/evil and black/white are basic themes of life. We all have to make decision in every day living to decide which path to take. Sometimes things are beyond our control (illness, family issues, the economy). Kate's path started with family problems...she was trying to protect her mother from abuse; Charlie was caught up in the drug scene associated with the music world; Jack has always had father issues...trying to impress his father and being disappointed in what his father became; Locke was dealt a bad hand with his father...taking such advantage of him; Eko was born in an area of the world where survival is difficult and government is corrupt and decisions have to be made just to get through the day. I can go on and on with each character, but the overall impression is that these people are on the island and do have a chance to start anew and make amends for the past. We should all be given second chances, having learned from the past.

Hope more and more of the TLE people find this blog. Thanks, David.

9/20/2006 10:05 AM  
Blogger Aaronia said...

Twinkle, thanks for your kind welcome.

Your words about Claire are really interesting, I also believe it would be great to see more of her internal struggles as a mother on the island. I think she was portrayed as an angel in Charlie’s dream in 2x12, not as the Virgin Mary, and that would only reflect how Charlie sees her. But it’s also so, that his own mother was another angel in the same dream, so that she is probably a bit of a ‘motherly’ role for him too. It has been commented in message boards that in 2x10 Claire was dressed in white and blue just like the statue. I think this was also meant to represent what she means for Charlie.

Anyways, I would say Ana’s complex character, who becomes a killer to revenge the death of her unborn child, or the enigmatic Kate, who is both a criminal and a caring person, break all kind of stereotypes about women’s roles in movies and TV.

And now I’ll try to describe my condition as a lost person. I kind of relate my recent experience to that of Locke’s.

About 8 years ago I was feeling really bad with my job. I had a good and well paid position, but I just couldn’t bear all the everyday problems and responsabilities and was feeling deeply that that wasn’t really the place for me. It took a lot of discerning and internal struggle, but finally I quitted and began to study Theology, so that I could do what I really wanted with my life. During 5 or 6 years I just felt so well about my choice, and so special and chosen, that I could face happily all kind of troubles, and felt I had something to say to other people, to help them feel as special as I felt, to help them find their own way. And I have been considered some kind of spiritual guide for a few people too.

But there came a moment when my perspective radically changed, I’m not sure why. It became clear that it was not going to be so easy to get a good position as a Theologian. For some time the profesors of my own faculty had been so excited about giving me a position as soon as I finished my doctorate, but then, after a few changes and a worsening financial situation, this possibility has gone out. Instead of facing this new problem with overall patience and faith as before, I began to doubt that I have been special or chosen at all. I feel instead dellusional and stupid. This is an intense feeling and is not so easy to overcome. Of course I still have my faith, and I try to put my own stupidity and vanity on the Lord’s hands, trusting that whatever becomes of me in the future it will be OK. But the shameful feeling of having been a letdown after being so ridiculely sure about my being chosen is still there. Sometimes I feel I don’t want to go any further, and it’s really being hard for me to finish my doctoral work. If I could be neutral, I would see there are still possibilities around, even some chances to become a working Theologian after all, but the problem is that I don’t feel any more that I’m following a path so ‘specially designed’ for me, that I don’t feel it’s clearly my vocation any more. I tend to believe it’s been a good lesson of humility and it’s probably very good that I’ve been put back as a normal person among the rest of people. The problem is, if I don’t feel special I tend to feel as trash, and I could become really trashy, because it’s hard for me to get in touch with my motivations any more and keep fighting.

Thank God I don’t feel I have to fight everybody’s else beliefs, as Locke feels. I’m kind of faced everyday with the choice of being able to laugh at myself and keep hoping, or just let myself go down into the pit of resentment. I like to think there is some hidden reason for all I have done and felt, like when Locke discovers he actually unknowingly saved Desmond’s life and everybody’s lives in the moment of his deepest despair. He did it, even if he had never come to realize it. So, as you all can see, I like to believe “everything happens for a reason”. Not as a closed destiny, it would be more like God being able to transform all our doings and make them meaningful, even if we are not able to discover this meaning ourselves. We just need to keep trusting him and trying to do our best. He will then take care of everything else.

My apologies for being so long, I guess it’s not so easy to understand what I mean, because the situation it’s kind of hard to explain in a few words and besides I don’t always find the words that I need in English.

9/21/2006 4:30 AM  
Blogger Thrasher76 said...

This has been an amazing thread so far.

Maven - That is so awesome about your son!! And I thought Ogre's were like onions??? (Shrek reference)

Aaronia - Great story! And Welcome!!!

9/21/2006 7:02 AM  
Blogger Sunloc said...

if they are lost. are we?

9/21/2006 6:40 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Ox: Thanks!

Maven: Can I think of Lost as a trifle? Mmmmm... layers of fruit, custard, and cake! So much nicer than an onion or an ogre! ;-) Thirty-four years of marriage is amazing and infertility is no small glitch. Thanks for your story!

Maven said:the overall impression is that these people are on the island and do have a chance to start anew and make amends for the past. We should all be given second chances, having learned from the past.

You put in my mind the fact that everyone who receives a second chance doesn't always make the best of it. Who of our beloved Losties is going to blow their second chance and how? You know some will have to, if not because it reflects reality then because TPTB are trying to tell a compelling story.

aaronia: Your English was great. Good point about Claire just being represented as an angel. Since blue and white are the traditional colors of the Virgin Mary in historical paintings, that's probably what made me jump to that conclusion.

Thanks for sharing your story too. What type of theology did you study? Although I'm not in as life-changing a situation as you were, I've been swinging this very week between thinking God may be preparing me for something important and being discouraged about it. It was good to hear your story about struggling with the same thing.

One identity question I keep coming back to is: "Who am I apart from what I do?" We define ourselves by the things we do - teacher, engineer, golfer, blog addict, philosopher, mother, alcoholic, etc... The sum of all the things we do does not our total make.

I heard a sermon from Mars Hill, MI that said God rested on the "seventh day" of creation to show that even not creating he was God. He is more than just the things he does, and so are we. So why do I feel that the work I do establishes my value and identity? If I'm a good mother, then I'm a good person (and vice versa). Why do I feel that just being - not having a job, not having the answers about what to do next, being sick or disabled - diminishes my value and erodes my identity? Why do I keep myself constantly busy and avoid just letting my mind go quiet? How do I learn to be and let what I do reflect but not drive who I am?

Sorry it doesn't really address your situation. It's just something I ponder often.

Sunloc: Can you expand on your question, please?

9/22/2006 8:34 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

maven: your questionss regarding why what we do defines who we are are very interesting. as i read through them i found myself thinking of locke. does he ever just sit and let his mind drift off without having to be hatching a plan or recalling his past or struggling with his convictions. he seems very task oriented. i don't recall ever seeing him without a task at hand. which, i think, is why he really kind of lost it when he saw the pearl station. the notion that one of his tasks was actually meaningless deeply bothered him. perhaps locke would have been more religious if he had studied wesley or calvin.

sorry maven, i'm not trying to derail your train of thought in your last post, it just made me think of that.

david, tahnk you so much for this post that has really jumpstarted sotl.

belly, thank you for sharing and giving me the courage to post on here.

everyone, thank you for transforming this blog into a place where we can both discuss lost and life in a calm and rational environment. i know it is trite, but i don't consider this, tlec or tlc blogs. they are communities.

group hug everybody!

9/22/2006 9:22 AM  
Blogger Aaronia said...

Thrasher: Thanks. I could relate very well to the feelings you posted earlier about, that in the darkest moment you had to face humility, shame and resentment and a lot of doubts, but you knew you weren’t going to turn back. It’s great to see that you could go out of that dark place and you are happy now.

Twinkle: I studied Catholic Theology here in Madrid. Your comment about finding our own identity more in ‘our being’ as in ‘our doing’ sounds very true, I‘ll think a bit more about that.

Oxillini: interesting thought about Locke being very task oriented, I think that’s true, but at the beginning we could also watch him just sitting on the beach, probably thinking about what happened to him. The scene where he lifts his arms to the downcoming rain (in the Pilot) always seemed to me like a “thank you” to God, life, ‘the isle’ or whatever he thought had cured him. After that experience he probably accepted gratefully that active, task oriented role. It’s also a welcomed change for somebody who had to be wheelchair-bounded for four years.

9/22/2006 11:16 AM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

I love this conversation. Cool insights. BTW, I just want to state for the record that this conversation is not just for people who believe in God. If anybody's lurking and thinks we might pounce on them if they post because they believe something different, you only really need to be afraid of Admin because we all know how offensive he can be (***DRIPPING SARCASM***). :-D Seriously, we'd love to hear your story too and it doesn't have to have a happy ending.

9/22/2006 7:36 PM  
Blogger oxillini said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/23/2006 6:02 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

twinkle's right, we all live in fear in the shadow of admin!

9/23/2006 6:03 AM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

ox: LOL!

I like the insights about Locke being very task oriented. Maybe that was partly why he was driven to go on the Australia adventure trip even though he was in a wheel chair. He was trying to prove his worth which had taken a hit because he couldn't do as much. Funny, because I wasn't really thinking about Locke when I posted that thing about how being disabled and unable to *do* as much harms how we see ourselves. Jack is probably that way too, which is why it hits him so hard when he fails to save someone. I just heard a psychologist(?) talking on the radio tonight about how for men the self-concept struggle tends to be more about feeling competent and for women it tends to be more about feeling valuable.

9/23/2006 7:21 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

I want to personally ditto what Twinkle said. DIVERSITY is going to make or break this blog. I am always encouraged by people who believe the same things as me but I am SHARPENED by people who believe differently.

I also want to submit that the "Value of Doing vs. Value of Being" thought is genius. Thanks for tossing that in.

Thanks for sharing. It makes me sad to hear you say that you "tend to feel like trash." Someone once told me that my feelings are REAL but not always RELIABLE...they are TRUE but not always TRUSTWORTHY. Feelings rarely give us the whole story and ofte distract us from the big picture. What is reliable and trustworthy is what others who really know you would say about you and what your Creator would say about you. What Charlie would say about Claire is more reliable than what her ex would say because Charlie has actually taken the time to get to know her.

Let me also say that I have personally struggled with understanding my "purpose in life" and what vocation or role I am "meant" to play in society. I worried for a long time about being a failure. I still worry sometimes because I am the type of guy who loves measureable success. I like to know for sure that I have accomplished what I am meant to accomplish. I struggled for a long time with the specifics of my calling but then I read something I believed to be very simple and profound. To summarize, Gary Thomas said that if our simple aim is to serve others then we can rest assured that we will never fail. I now know that it matters very little what I do or where I do it when it comes to specifics...as long as I take advantage of the always available opportunities to serve my fellow man, I am a brilliant success.

I still struggle with feeling like my service doesn't accomplish what I want it to accomlish. I still sometimes wonder if I am a failure or if I am fatally off track. I must remind myself often that selfless giving is the accomplishment! Aaronia...you've been given the gift of life and you are a unique blend of gifts and abilities and you have things to offer this world that no one else has to offer. This is the truth and it is also reliable and trustworthy. If you will only seek to give others what you've been given, you will be a brilliant success in this world!

9/24/2006 12:03 PM  
Blogger Aaronia said...

Thank you, Admin, that was really kind of you, and very helpful.

I hope you guys have fun tonight with DJDan, it's just too late for me to stay up.

9/24/2006 6:04 PM  
Blogger ular98 said...

You asked quite a while back, and I had missed it, what female on Lost I most relate to. This is not the one I like best, but the one I related too was Shannon. I grew up in a home where I was an only child, and my parents were older when I was born so I was more like a grandchild. Having said that, I like Shannon thought the world revolved around me and if I didn't get what I wanted I just found a way to get it. Like I said I was married several times, like Shannon they were for my convenience more than anything;or what I wanted at the moment. When I finally found the right person and really fell in love it was no longer all about me, but what I wanted to do to make my husband happy. In return I got a husband who is devoted to me as well, it is not a one way street for him as it had been in my previous relationships.
My favorite female. Hmmmmm I guess it has to be Kate. She seems to be pretty self sufficient and capable. I would like to be confident enough to jump into something without worrying about the outcome, and over analyzing everything. I was in law enforcement in my younger days and I think it made me a skeptic and very cautious,and less trusting than most people.

9/25/2006 10:13 AM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

Admin- very well put. And, I agree about diversity in this group. I've enjoyed getting to know everyone, regardless of their background and beliefs. So if anyone is out there lurking who is afraid to post- don't be!

Ular- thanks for sharing that, glad to hear that you were able to grow as a person. I miss Shannon's character, just when we were discovering the depth to her character, they wrote her off. When you boil it all down, we're all pretty selfish at heart aren't we? Part of the human condition I guess. *sigh*

9/25/2006 1:26 PM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/26/2006 3:03 PM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

Why do I feel that just being - not having a job, not having the answers about what to do next, being sick or disabled - diminishes my value and erodes my identity? Why do I keep myself constantly busy and avoid just letting my mind go quiet? How do I learn to be and let what I do reflect but not drive who I am?

How true this is Twinkle, and something I struggle with periodically....this pressure from society to "do* and achieve success infects every socioeconomic group, and every age....it doesn't matter where we are or how far we've come..there is always the pressure of others who have done "it" better....thus the constant need to refocus our energies and thinking on who we "are" rather than what we do or have done.

9/26/2006 3:14 PM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

oops forgot to post this before...We will be including a "Stories of the Lost" thread on the new LOST Community message board for any of you would like to continuing these thought-provoking discussions in that media.

9/26/2006 3:19 PM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Guys

You all know me from the TLEC, a long time lurker and in the shorter term poster. I hope you will bear with me as I feel that this will be a long post and I hope. I was going to start by saying about how I’m not Lost but I realised to a degree that’s not really true. Don’t get me wrong I am a lucky guy, I’m happily married with two wonderful children, I have a nice house and a job that doesn’t suck (too much), I couldn’t (and don’t) ask for more. I am Lost to a degree but I’m not going to go into where I am lost right now, that’s for another time

Now I hope you guys will accept me here, I was really pleased by David’s comments about diversity. I notice that this blog is quite Christian in nature and I guess most of you if not all are practising Christians. I’m not and nor will I ever be, I have my own beliefs and I’m Pagan. I don’t see that makes a difference but if it is a problem to you guys I won’t post here, no hard feelings at all, honestly. However I hope I have something to contribute here. I am not ever going to try and convert anyone to my beliefs, I have my own path and maybe, If you like God has a different role for me, as I think I’ve said before there are many ways up the mountain.

I also want you to know that I am not someone that has rejected Christianity out of hand, I have read the Bible carefully (even Numbers) and I’ve also read bits of the Quran and Book of Mormon (although not as much as I feel I should). My wife is Catholic and I have a lot of friends who are practising Christians But I’m me. Ironically my real name is Chris (or Christopher if you’re my mother), which means bearer of Christ – ironic hey.

I hope I can learn and share my thoughts with you guys here and I hope that I will have something to contribute here. I like to think of myself as a liberal and tolerant individual (I know the word liberal seems to have pretty bad connotations in the US) but as I said I’m me. I’m also trying to improve myself, I’ve given up my 20 year addiction to confectionary, I’m driving slower, still can’t crack biting my nails though and I’m still faaaar from perfect. My screen name –Dark Angel actually has quite a lot of meaning behind it (it’s nothing to do with the TV show which I’ve never seen) and to use that onion analogy it’s way down at the core but maybe that’ll come out at some point!

You know, I never though when I first saw trailer for Lost what this would all lead to and that I would meet such a great group of intelligent, caring and friendly people, but I guess life is like that. I never thought when I went to sort out my insurance that I would bump into the woman that would become my wife.

So who am I in Lost – oh I guess I’m somewhere between Danielle and Hurley. I’m on the outside, the edge (I don’t mean to sound tragic, it’s not). It’s where I walk, the lonely road – I’ll stop now before I get too mystical/emotional and plus I am writing this in work and stuffs pilling up on my desk.

I just wanted to say I hope you guys will accept me as a friend, as a shoulder to cry on, as someone to share a joke with but if (I’m trying to think of a good way to word this) , lets say my beliefs are incompatible with the community here I don’t want to force my way in. It’s up to you guys, my hand is open in friendship, take it if you wish.

Chris / Dark Angel

9/27/2006 4:09 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

i, for one, say welcome to stories of the lost dark angel / chris!

9/27/2006 7:11 AM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

Lostgrrl and Dark Angel-
Welcome to Stories of the Lost! I love reading everyone's stories.

Lostgrrl- thanks for sharing your story.

Dark Angel- please don't stop posting here! You and your views are definitely welcome, this blog is not just for people who hold a certain point of view. I would be disappointed in us if you felt like you weren't free to post you opinions and point of view. And I have really enjoyed the insight you've had over on TLEC- so please keep on. And, congrats on beating the sugar addiction...man that must've been hard.

9/27/2006 9:09 AM  
Blogger ular98 said...

Dark...I have no right to tell you you're right or wrong. If I stand true to my belief, (my) God has to judge me, all I have to do is love you. So, post to your hearts content.

9/27/2006 11:00 AM  
Blogger Thrasher76 said...

The beauty of this thing is that everyon eis welcome. Being different is what makes being alive awesome. We all make choices and each one molds us into who we are. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Everyone!!! As long as this is going to stay civil and honest I see no harm in people opinions.

9/27/2006 11:10 AM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/27/2006 11:27 AM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

All I can say Dark Angel is that you'd *better* keep posting here! As I am understanding it, this blog is for an open discussion of many different beliefs and paths...after all, we see the LOST characters following various paths of spirituality/identity seeking.

It is obvious that you are very intelligent and thoughtful, and I look forward to reading more posts from you :)

9/27/2006 11:32 AM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

I am really impressed by the open and honest sharing here...David, you have set up a great blog here in which to discuss the spiritual quests and journeys of the lost ...and we are (or were) *all* lost at one time or another...

A great poem that I have on my LJ:

One of us is a hero.
One of us is a fraud.
One of us is a junkie.
One of us is a cop.
One of us is a saint.
One of us is a sinner.
One of us is a martyr.
One of us is a murderer. All of us are guilty.
All of us are lost.

(don't know the author)

And I agree with you about Charlie too...his vulnerability and constant struggle between wanting to do what is good vs. giving into his insecurities and need for love and attention...draw me into his character in a big way....perhaps because I see a lot of this struggle within myself. I really hate when some folks just write him off after he's done something really out of line (such as setting the fire and taking Aaron)...they are not seeing his internal struggle.

9/27/2006 5:44 PM  
Blogger Administrator said...

I have some catching up to do but I've gotten as far as Dark Angel's post.

Dark Angel,
I'm honored that you have posted here and hope you will continue. I can't wait to hear more about how you relate to Danielle and Hurley. I think they are far more complicated and less "obvious" characters than some of the others. "Dave" is one of my favorite episodes...

Since you've read the Bible you may have noticed that Jesus was compatible with everyone except for the religious leadership of his day...the people who claimed to know God but acted like hypocrits. As a Christian believer, I tend to do my best to understand and imitate his example. The only person "incompatible" with me would be someone who claims to trust in Christ the way I do but completely denies their faith by the way they live and treat others. The only people I have a tough time growing close to are hypocrites and you don't seem to be one.

One more thing...Jesus worked hard to relate to all types of people but he also never hesitated to challenge their thinking and call them to a better life. I want to imitate him in this way as well. Just as I hope everyone on this blog will sharpen and encourage me, I hope to be able to sharpen and encourage others in the context of our friendships. As we discuss Lost and the intricacies of the characters I hope we can all grow along with them and spur each other on in the process.

P.S. I realize that I rolled out the words "Bible", "Christian", "Jesus", and "Christ" in this post. I hope no one if offended or intimidated or disappointed by this language. Just wanted to get out there who I am and communicate that who I am does not disqualify me from understanding and accepting who others are. :)

Off to catch up with other posts...

9/27/2006 6:50 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

Well, I was going to welcome Dark Angel but I'm way late!

Besides Admins questions, did any of you watch the Season 2 refresher tonight? What stood out to you? I love those shows because I think they "show the author's hand" somewhat, revealing what they think is most important?

9/27/2006 9:43 PM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Cool Guys,

Thanks for the welcome, I was sure you'd be happy to see me posting here but I felt important to check. I used to hang out on a CS Lewis Usenet group and was constantly flamed by a lot of the posters there. I was a lone non-Christian among a lot of very fundamental voices. I know that the UK is far more religiously tolerant than the US but even here you never know peoples reactions to your faith, it’s sad but I’ve known people that have hid the fact their a Christian in case their laughed at and as a pagan ‘coming out of the broom closet’ can be quite daunting sometimes. I’m lucky I have very supportive family and friends but I’ve known people to be ostracised for their beliefs which is terrible.

David I agree with your sentiments about religious hypocrites, it's very easy to use religion as an excuse, and pick and choose the bits you want to. I remember shortly after 9/11 a Muslim friend of mine , could not believe that the terrorist had the affront to even call themselves Muslim, killing he said was against God’s wishes. I guess people forget that there are no exceptions to the Ten Commandments. It’s not Do not kill (unless the person is not from your country, culture or creed, oh and junkies, the homeless and homosexuals don't really count either...). I think Jesus overturning the tables of the money lenders in the temple is an important message to us all. Religion can be a very powerful tool to control the masses and it's all too easy to forget the central themes which lets face it are pretty much the same in most religions, you know don’t kill, be nice, help out those that are less fortunate that you.

Getting back to Lost I think Hurley is an interesting character. He is desperate to be wanted, to be liked. I think he feels like an outsider, he is very conscious of his size and over compensates to try and win acceptance. Hurley is also clearly very superstitious (and I guess with good reason) and I am terrible for making up my own superstitions and having my little routines. Hurley also clearly has a over developed sense of guilt, he feels that he is responsible for the death of the people who were on the pier that collapsed, he feels guilty for the crash of 815, he feels guilty for the death of Libby, that’s a hell of a lot of guilt to carry around. I think that for most of the Losties they need to find redemption. I think for Hurley whilst he doesn’t actually need redemption he believes that he does and his battle is the one to be free from his guilt. He is left in a terrible position, he is desperate to be accepted but at the same time he is terrified that anyone that he gets close to will come to harm.

Danielle is someone who is very much on the edge and there’s a lot we don’t know about here. She’s clearly had to become very self-sufficient in order to survive but in order to do that she’s had to separate her self from anyone else, she had to kill her team, live alone. At the same time she suffered this terrible loss of her daughter and has a desperate need to find her again, so like Michael (or any parent) she will do what she needs to do to get her daughter back. Now suddenly she faced with a whole new load of people and she doesn’t know what to do she is a bit like a moth drawn to a flame. It’s funny it’s only writing this I realise that this is me all over. As a child I spent 11 years at boarding school and then went straight to university, so I became very independent but learnt not to make long term relationships, it’s only now in my 30’s that I am laying down roots but still when people ask me where I come from I tend to look blank, the honest answer is I don’t really come from anywhere.

ScoutPost Too right, beating the sugar addiction was a nightmare, I gave up smoking in my early twenties and that was a walk in the park compared to sugar! The hardest thing is all the chocolate at supermarket checkouts.

Lostgrrl the poem you mentioned is from the Channel 4 promo for season 1 of Lost over here in the UK, although I never actually saw it.

Well I seem to very good at long posts (I’m writing this in Word as my last post was so full of typos it was embarrassing). The advantage of the time difference with you guys is I have time to compose the responses but I will try and get on line more when your all up and about.

9/28/2006 1:58 AM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...


I know you’ve just got through my last post and here I am again. I’ve been re-reading all your posts and I just had to say how much you’ve inspired me with what you’ve written and I think over the next few weeks and months a lot is going to be confided here.

Belly Your post was very inspirational, anyone can do the right thing if it’s handed to them on a plate, when there is no temptations, but the difficult thing is to get through the temptation, to fight the demons, and your stronger because of it. A lot of people are all sugar on the surface but when the cards are down they fall apart where as you are where you are because you’ve had to fight off the demons, remember it’s what you are know, not what you were that is important.

Thrasher I’m glad you’ve found Melissa, I enjoyed reading your blog. Getting engaged after 6 months not that fast, once you know, you know right?. I got engaged to Nik only 9 weeks after first meeting her and that was 11 years ago now.

Twinkle That’s the thing with faith, we only really know how strong it is when we test it. It is easy to believe when everything is smelling of roses but so much harder when things go wrong. I believe though that by testing what we believe by questioning what we are told our faith becomes stronger. If you can take your beliefs, really question and test them and come out with them still intact (or modified) your faith is so much stronger. I admire the fact that you carried on going to Church on your own, that took courage.

I like everyone’s slant on Eko, I think the self-punishment is particularly pertinent and I can understand it. Often the only control you have is over yourself. When everything is out of control the one are of control is over yourself. A teenager I was a self-harmer (now other than my wife virtually no one else knows that!). I’ve got some lovely scars on my left arm and some equally elaborate excuses to explain them (usually involving getting caught up in a barbed-wire fence). Self-harm however is all about control, it’s about having something that you have complete control over. It’s also very cathartic, a real release of tension. The funny thing is I actually learnt to completely control the pain. I think for Eko his self imposed punishment is a very similar thing.

9/28/2006 3:53 AM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

Thanks so much for sharing your innermost secret with us, Dark Angel! That took tremendous courage! Congrats on overcoming both that and the sugar addiction.(I am in the process myself of kicking the sugar addiction and losing weight...though the process seems ever so slow...in fact, I am deliberately not following up on the two Apollo bars that ABC was supposed to sending us ;o!)

I have suffered from depression and lack of identity throughout my life which led to sense of total loss of control. As a result, I constantly tried to control and manipulate my relationships with others. Over the years, I have learned to identify and control those tendencies...that coupled with a dramatic improvement in my depression over the last year and a half or so has given me a sense of freedom and identity in living life that alluded me in my younger years.

I believe that the folks on the Island suffer from this same sense of lack of control, both from the events on the Island and in their past lives...and as a result try to exert control over themselves, others, and events in one way or another...guilt and self-punishment (Eko, Hurley), control over others (Jack, Ana Lucia, Sawyer, Jin), attention-seeking (Charlie). In fact, the only two that seem relatively free of guilt and fear, and identity-loss are Rose and Claire.

9/28/2006 10:32 AM  
Blogger Narrim said...

Greetings everyone. It's hard to believe there's only one week left, and I'm glad I've found this place before it's premiere. I'm much of journeyman when it comes to the show, having exiled myself from the board I originally attended for most of Season 1, and telling my thoughts, experiences, and analyses (however loose they may be at this point) whenever I find it topical. This means that most of my opinions are fairly independent (or shared by those that attended the original board), yet unwillingly ignorant of all other ideas that I've not been privy to.

The first things I noticed when opening this comment thread were the open discussion and histories of our very own lives, and how very religious it so far is. It shouldn't unnerve me, but it does. Never in my life have I been witness to such open discussion of the Bible, faith, God, and experience. In fact, I've truly known only one person who had a very open and outspoken faith, and while we were decent friends, I was always cautious around him, afraid to say the wrong thing. I feel that way here. After all, we fear what we don't understand. I'm not saying this hoping that you would cut down the religious conversation, which I'm not. In fact, I find it truly fascinating and very warm-hearted. I would never want to censor that nor be the impetus for such things.

Unlike most of you it seems, my tale is dull and colorless. I'm only at the age of nineteen, but already I've found myself trapped. I am jobless, without transportation, without true physical outside contact, and lacking in the motivation to achieve anything more. I live at home with my parents, sister, and grandmother, living day to day, doing whatever small and menial things I do to just take my mind away be it a vast amount of television shows, online message boards, or video games and books in small doses at a time. It's a life I both chose and fell into, a life of waiting and simple comforts. There's food, good drinking water, a warm shelter year-round, and right now, a beautiful and crisp autumn season has only begun. It's simple, and though I know it won't last forever, I don't see myself doing anything in the way of getting ready for the journeys after.

My life's had no real shake-ups, no drama, nothing to really write about. Maybe it's because I'm so young, maybe it's because I haven't put myself out into the world, and maybe it's because it's a life of waiting, but it's fine with me for now. I understand I'm lost, be it with faith, with love, with life, and especially with myself. And I also feel something in my gut like this blog, this place... it may help over time goes on.

I just want to say that I hope I'm welcome, and I hope contribute well to this society.

Also, a warning. Please don't ever get me started on Shannon. Thank you.

9/28/2006 2:45 PM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Lostgrrl

Depresion is a bitch and usually completely misunderstood by people who had not experienced it. I am gald you are comming through, and I'll tell you what, your certainly a valued member of this community.

Narrim Hi welcome to the blog, you'll find a great bunch of open, kind and intelligent people here and no one is going to judge you. We were all brought here by a common obsession with Lost but we all found a great community which transcends a geeky obsession with a TV show. Hey at 19 you've got a lot in front of you. Being jobless sucks, I was made redundant for the fourth time in January but you never know what or who is round the corner.

Well I'm off to bed know as I have to get up early but I'll be back online in about 9 hours or so

9/28/2006 3:13 PM  
Blogger Twinkle said...

DA: Here, here!

Welcome, Narrim. I look forward to posting with you! I'm so glad that though unnerved you're sticking with us! I hope more people have that kind of courage. This blog isn't about being right. It's about being real.

There's a lot above that stirs my thoughts. I'm musing over the new observations or the nuances of the characters that have been mentioned. I'm musing over the interesting combination of ourselves and the show that we're doing. I can tell that I'm not the only one hoping, praying, that this place will foster real connections and not fake or shallow posing. I think that's a really tall order in an online community, but if anyone can do it this growing group can. May what's said here open our hearts, our minds, change us for the better, and enrich us in all we do.

That's all I've got for now 'cuz anything else would take a book to talk about. Peace and Grace (that's my version of Namaste) :-)

9/28/2006 6:31 PM  
Blogger Love Pirate 77 said...

Hey y’all. I feel really touched by what I’ve read in the comments and by the openness I’ve seen. I would really like to be a part of this community, and I just hope and pray that it continues in this fashion, forging friendships and relationships that don’t die a couple months down the road (as these sorts of things have a tendency to do). This could be really special.

Just a bit of background on myself. I was mainly a lurker on TLEC, though I was a MAJOR lurker and I did post a few times in the comments. I’m a huge lost fan for many reasons (that I’ll probably cover in another post. I’ll follow the pattern that’s been set out and talk about myself first, something I’m not very good at). I’m 22 years old, fresh out of college, with a mining engineering position in the desert of southern California. I’m engaged to be married to my soul mate, the most wonderful person in all of existence. I’m a writer (novel, short stories and poetry), a singer, and someday I want to be a movie director.

I was lost for a long time in my life, but I have found myself completely now. I know that sounds strange for someone who is only 22, but it’s true. I am an only child, and I have two wonderful parents, who are truly my heroes. I grew up in North Carolina. I was a loner and an outcast in middle school and high school. I felt so incredibly alone. I was suicidal for a while (never made any attempts, because I was too afraid, but wished I could) and totally depressed. Pretty uninteresting stuff. After my first year of college I changed all that.

I say I changed it because I made a conscious decision to change how I looked at the world. Making the change was easy, making the decision was the hard part. I’d been told for so long that I was the only one to blame for how I felt, and I took me 9 years to figure out that I had the power to change myself. I was raised a Christian, and had gone through the phase where I doubted, and then I truly believed, and then I stopped caring. When I decided to change I started spending time at an on-campus Christian organization (where I met my soul mate), where I realized that there were plenty of people willing to help me help myself. I began attending a Bible study (which I eventually led for a year), I sang in a choir, and played hand bells. I found a place where I truly belonged. I would never have found that place if I didn’t choose to. I had lost myself behind all the crap I forced on myself, and when I took it all away I found myself again. My faith is stronger than ever, my love for life and the world and everyone in it (especially my soul mate) is as strong as can be, and I love who I am and where I am in my life and my relationships. It took me a long time to get there and was a struggle (that I won’t bore you with anymore) but I’m glad I got there.

The only issue I have now is about my career after we get married, but that’s for another time, and really, as long as my fiancée is happy, so am I (as the new country song says).

I’m also going to post something about Lost (I promise). I’m really hoping to make some wonderful friends here, but I don’t want to force it. I love to talk to and meet new people, and I’ve been told I’m a good listener and a good friend. I love Lost and look forward to great discussions about it here. Thank you so much for this, all of you, both admin and all who post. Please keep it up, I don’t want to become a part of something that slowly starts withering away.


9/28/2006 10:23 PM  
Blogger Love Pirate 77 said...

Wow, sorry that last one was so long, y’all. Here are a few (shorter) thoughts on Lost.
I love that TPTB don’t have some agenda about plot for the show, but they let the characters develop the story (what I’m trying to do with my novel). The theories about the island are nice and all, but nothing can beat characters. I find every character fascinating, from Locke to Jack and everyone in between. I particularly get wrapped up in Kate, Sawyer, Charlie, Hurley, Claire, Eko, and my man Locke. And while I think it is too simple to try to relate myself to these characters, I like to learn about them and apply what I learn to the people around me. I know who I am, and I’m not personally lost anymore, so I like to learn about others and help those who are lost.
I really like Locke because he is the one character whose progression has been truly non-linear. I know a lot of people didn’t like the turn he took in Season 2, but I find it more interesting than many of the characters who move in a straight line. Locke was totally faithful in the island as soon as he awoke, due to his miracle. His encounter with “smokey” (if we’re assuming that’s what he saw early in Season 1) and the hatch strengthened his faith. His faith was initially shaken by frustration at his inability to open the hatch, followed by renewal at his higher purpose of pushing the button, truly something based solely on faith, and blind faith at that. He then had doubt sewed into his mind by Not Henry Gale, and this brought him crashing down. Everything he’d worked to protect he now questioned. The “?” hatch helped confirm his doubts. And now everything has changed again, with the explosion (or whatever it was) of the swan hatch at the end of Season 2, and might once again refresh his faith in the island. I think his development really reflects the journey that some of us go through with regards to any faith we may have, whether it be self confidence, religion, love, or any sort of faith we find in ourselves. We all go through periods of doubt, and they can make us stronger or weaker. Sometimes we use the doubt to give us that strength, if our faith can still exist despite the doubt, then the doubt does not control us. Sometimes we need something like an explosion to pull us out of the doubt.
I like Locke for his personal journey and I like the rest of the characters for their interpersonal journeys. I think character relationships are just as important as single character development, because, while our relationships don’t define us, they reflect who we truly are better than any acts or words or any other indicators could, whether the relationships are romantic, friendly, combative, hateful, resentful, or otherwise. The character of Locke shows much of his personality up front, while the others get their personalities revealed through their relationships. I look forward to seeing how The Others factor into all this.
I’m truly sorry that this was so long, but if you read it, thanks for reading.

9/28/2006 10:42 PM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Love Pirate 77,

Don't worry about the long posts, It seems to be the order of the day here and it's nice to get a bit of background. Sometimes just the act of putting things down in writing can be pretty cathartic.

Good luck with the writing, I am a writer of sorts. I enjoy writing poetry, but it all turns out to be really dark stuff, well apart from the occasional funny. I've also had a go at writing the odd novel, boy is it hard work. Plot's the problem for me, I got about 130,000 words into my first novel before ditching it, it was a useful learning experience. My second novel started one day when I was bored at work and I've written the first few chapters. Everyone who as read it loves it and wants to read the rest, except I haven't got a clue where the story gos. Writing I'm good at but I just can't do plot!

Anyway Welcome to the blog, I hope you'll find a home here. I truely believe some real friendships are and will be forged here. I know some people think your a bit strange if you talk about online friends, which is funny beacause a pen pal seems ok, but hey the guy sitting next to me at work met his wife online in a forum not disimilar to this (that's not a proposal guys).

I think the good thing is about a place like this, there is no pretention. I can get to know you guys with out prejudging you on your looks, clothes, sex etc. Certainly on TLEC I made a few assumptions about peoples gender that were entirely wrong! The problem off line is that we all make assumptions about people based on our initial impressions of their appearance etc. We've all done it, I know I've interviewed people for jobs and I've had a good idea of whether I'm going to employ them by the time I've finished the handshake (don't worry - I'm not that shallow interviewees have proved me wrong by either shinning or diving in their interview). Here we get to know people and then sometimes find out what they looked like. I must say though it was really great hearing you guys on the podcast and I do like it when I finally get to see what you guys look like, sometimes its like OMG xxx is actually a girl!

Anyway I'm waffling on here (see what I mean about long posts). Catch you later.

9/29/2006 1:29 AM  
Blogger Administrator said...

Welcome to Narrim & Love Pirate 77! Every new story on this blog is such an inspiration. Lostgrrl...thank you too for sharing with such authenticity. Dark Angel is right about depression...one of the worst parts is that people who haven't experienced it don't understand what you're going through. I don't know that I've felt that alienation when dealing with depression but I certainly felt understood when I was having panic attacks and agorophobic tendencies. I didn't even understand myself!

Narrim, I thought it was very interesting that you said you "found yourself trapped." All of Lost's season 3 promos have the line "find yourself" and the season begins with 3 central characters "trapped" by the Others. I think it will be very insightful for you to engage with them on their journey as they seek relief from their confiinement. While my outward circumstances are far different from yours (I'm 27 years old, homeowner, married, employed, etc), I know I can relate to "feeling trapped" on some level. I bet everyone else can too.

Love Pirate, I work with a lot of Junior High & High School students who currently feel like you felt when you were younger. One young man in particular who is also an only child comes to mind when I read your story. I try my best to encourage them but many times the results are disappointing. It's good to hear that sometimes it just takes a little more time for someone to decide that they really do have the strength (or more appropriately, the faith) to climb out of their misery.

You guys are all so awesome. I'm overwhelmed everytime I open this window.

9/29/2006 7:58 AM  
Blogger Narrim said...

Administrator: All of Lost's season 3 promos have the line "find yourself" and the season begins with 3 central characters "trapped" by the Others. I think it will be very insightful for you to engage with them on their journey as they seek relief from their confiinement.

Well, Season 2 made a very heavy-handed campaign for, "Everything happens for a reason." What if I'm trapped for a reason, for a purpose? What if my posting here has a butterfly effect on whatever happens with you or someone you know? What if I wouldn't even be posting here had things been different, had I not made the choices of not choosing?

For now, I just accept where I am and what I'm doing. Again, I've got the necessities for survival: food, water, shelter, love. I've also got LOST, The Wire, and Boston Legal, as well as various online communities to carry on both conversations with and learn more from. It's decent, nothing spectacular, but I'd much rather be here than out in the cold. I'm content, but thank you for your concerns, ^_^.

I have an urge to talk about LOST right now, but for some reason, I'm very shy at expressing my opinion unless there's topicality to it or I'm asked for/prodded into it. Same with life, as well, heh.

I love LOST because it's the type of show I find myself engrossed in: long, drawn-out, well-plotted story with a strong ensemble cast that have tri-dimensional characters, a powerful mix of drama and comedy, and keeps you hooked every week. LOST has most of these elements in spades, though I've found myself overall disappointed with Season 2 as it was more about the plot than the character. That truly hooked me with LOST were its characters and theories.

Okay, so I'm not very chatty. Maybe at a later point. Take care all.

9/29/2006 3:24 PM  
Blogger Love Pirate 77 said...

Dark Angel:
Thank you for your nice welcome to the community (I won’t say blog). I’d love to read some of your writing sometime. I agree about how great it is without prejudices that come from assuming things about a person. This way, we can get to know someone based on what they want us to see, not on what we want to see. This has been a common theme on Lost, one which I think will be explored this season. Early on in Season 1 (in the first episode actually) Sawyer talks about the roles people were assigned (terrorist, criminal, etc), and they have all been fighting those stereotypes, both in trying to change other people’s minds and trying to not judge themselves that way either.

About dealing with depression, or trying to help someone deal with it. My friends tried everything they could think of to get me out of it, sympathy, anger, any tactic you could think of, and they were always frustrated by their lack of success. In the end I just had to choose to come out of it. It's our choices that define us, and it's important that your young people know that they have complete power over how they think and look at the world. Don't give up on them just because it's discouraging when you don't seem to be making a difference. Speaking from experience, it makes a huge difference. My friends and family's encouragement (I didn't respond well to the "tough love" thing, though) may not have brought me out of depression, but it kept me from going deeper. Sometimes you just have to stop the bleeding before you try to fix the problem. I can guarantee you that you are making a huge difference in the lives of these kids, and even if you don't feel it, it means the world to them. Just as it was Charlie’s choice to throw his heroin in the fire, and he had complete control over it, he still couldn’t have done it without Locke’s help. You’re definitely making a difference.

I think that everyone has a different opinion of whether everything happens for a reason. I personally don’t believe in fate, and I believe that if you don’t like the way things are, then you should change them. If you are happy where you are in life then more power to you. If you want things to change, but can’t find the motivation or the reasoning to do it, that’s another issue. It’s something we all have to struggle with. I know it might be a difficult decision, once I get married, about my career. I want to be a movie director, but it’ll be so much easier to just continue being an engineer, and to be happy and satisfied. I would be no more happy being a director, because as long as I have my wife, then everything else becomes less important. But it’s what I want to do, so if it is that important to me (and thankfully my fiancée supports me 100%) then I should try my hardest to get it to happen. It’s all about what you want. If we’re where we want to be, or if we don’t have a desire to be anywhere else, that’s great, but if we want more, we have to decide whether we want to go after it. Keep posting, I think your posts are some of the most interesting ones I’ve read, and I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on the show and about yourself.

9/29/2006 4:15 PM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Good Morning guys,

Love Pirate 77 There is a bit of my poetry on my MySpace page which is linked via my Blogger account. I'll try and put up a new blog on my blogger account in the next few days and publish some of my writing there.

Funnily enough all our discussions about our screen names and avatars on TLC the other day got me thinking about mine and I ended up writing a poem called "Dark Angel" at the weekend. I was walking the dog at night at the time so at the moment I have snippits recorded on my mobile phone but once I have got it in some sort of order I'll publish a link.

10/02/2006 2:24 AM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

I just wanted to do a separate post on the subject of Fate.

Fate's a tricky one - I'm a believer in fate to a degree but I don't think fate is absolute. One of my heroes Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) spent much of his life juggling his belief of pre-determinism with the mutually exclusive concept of free will.

I'm not going to go into quantum physics here or the Heisenberg uncertainty principal, firstly because I'm at work and secondly it's too heavy for a Monday Morning.

I think fate is a bit like driving a car. Once you’re on the road, it's going to take you in a certain direction but it's up to you at what speed to go, which lane to drive in etc. There are restrictions on what you can do in the car and certain actions are going to have certain consequences. There are also going to be points you can turn around, or pull off and go in a completely different direction.

I think fate has to be looked at as a framework only and within that you have certain freedoms. You're never going to be able to make yourself invisible, marry George Clooney, or become a pirate captain but within bounds we can dictate our own futures. If we put everything down to fate we become nothing more than and experience gathering device. If our every action is simply the inevitable consequence of the trillions of chemical and physical interactions in and around us and free will is just an illusion it not only makes you question the point of doing anything but even brings into question the whole concept of justice; ‘It wasn’t my fault I robbed the store it was an inevitable consequence of the universe’.

You'll see me use my car analogy a lot (Car = body, driver = Soul) etc!

I think within Lost there is an element of Fate. I don't think that the characters were fated from birth to crash on the Island but I think the actions of other people together with their own actions set up a chain of events from which they could not escape that led them to the island (is that fate?) . I also feel their futures are not entirely in the hands of fate. Each of the characters has an opportunity to redeem themselves and whilst fate might provide that opportunity it is down to them how they use that opportunity, what path they take.

I certainly believe that we sometimes unwittingly become unwitting cogs in the larger machinery. That sometimes patters develop which we fall into, wheels are set in motion and events come into play and that we become ‘fated’ to meet someone. On a simple level, it could be argued you were fated to meet your spouse for example; you both lived in the same small town, both had the same taste in music and old movies etc, it was almost a statistical certainty that at some point you would bump into each other – is that fate?

Anyway again I’ve waffled on forever – that’s the problem of posting when no-one else is online.

10/02/2006 3:22 AM  
Blogger JoAnn said...

OT... how come the date doesn't show up on this blog... just the time? On TLEC, we had both.

10/02/2006 7:16 AM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Joann

I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it. It maybe something that David can sort in the Blogger Control Panel.

10/02/2006 7:55 AM  
Blogger maven said...

Hey, dark angel and joann: I noticed that, too. Makes it really hard to know where you left off and how current a comment is.

David, can you fix that?

10/02/2006 10:26 AM  
Blogger Love Pirate 77 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10/02/2006 6:51 PM  
Blogger scoutpost said...

Wow! I love coming to this blog! Welcome to all the new people who've commented. I have only skimmed the comments because it's late and I'm tired, but can't wait to go back to read everyone's stories and views. This blog is so thought provoking. Just in reading everyone's comments I'm thinking of how I relate to so many of the characters on LOST in different ways that I hadn't thought about before. It's so great how everyone is being so candid about their lives. I think we all relate to each other so well, (at least I do) not just in our common interest in LOST, but in life. I think our experiences are common to many (being part of humankind), but it's not always easy to build relationships that are solid enough to be really candid with people about your life. And even though our relationships are online, I am really glad to be able to listen and learn from everyone's experiences here. Can't wait til Season 3 starts so that we can see where the LOST characters take us.

10/02/2006 11:58 PM  
Blogger Narrim said...

dark angel, I am absolutely astounded by your theory on fate and free will. Truly floored! That is the first time I've heard a theory that combines both elements so simply and so elegantly, and makes perfect sense. We're on a destined road, but we can change how we move along it, other things present obstacles, and there are times along it where we can turn off and find a new direction. Beautiful. I'm going to take that to heart and thank you kindly. Wow.

Now, just to get out of this rest stop, =P. I think using that analogy on fate and free will, I can definitely explain and understand a lot of my life. I'm nineteen now, and I've barely driven a car, the last time more than a year ago, maybe two. I fear being behind the wheel because I never know what will happen and I'm too afraid of the choices I, as the driver, have to make. I do fine on a completely empty road where I'm alone (save nagging parents) and there's very little to break my focus, and I've never been on a road with cars. I've never allowed myself, pushed myself into that direction. It's a good allegory for how I live my life, staying away from all the traffic and playing it safe, where I'm in good control, or at least the illusion, of my own dealings, no matter how minor on a global scale they are. Again, thank you very much, dark angel.

And welcome, scoutpost! Two more days!

10/03/2006 1:28 AM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Narrim,

Glad you liked my idea. I failed my driving test 3 times when I was 17 and just gave up until I was 23, I then had a 3 day intensive course and passed. I think at 17 I had no motivation to pass my test and I felt pressured to do it as it was the thing to do. At 23 I wanted to drive and that made all the difference.

Hey on the bright side you can tell everyone how environmentally friendly you are being by not driving. My journey to work is almost 100 mile round trip to work each day :(, not good, I'm just glad the company is relocating nearer to home next month.

I guess with driving (and life) it's all a matter of risk assessment, earlier this year a work colleage of mine was killed whilst speeding, he came round a bend and went straight into the back of a stationary police car that was attending to an accident. It was a real shock, he was only just 20 and his car was a real passion of his. I'll tell you what though I'm a more careful driver now!

Things seem to be a bit slow here and at TLC at the moment but I guess the discussion will really start moving comed tommorow night (Thursday Morning for me)

10/03/2006 3:59 AM  
Blogger oxillini said...

dark angel: i too enjoyed your analogy. i had some similar opinions on free will and predestination, but had never heard things summed up quite so nicely. the great thing about your analogy is one can take it into as much detail as they want. i.e. sometimes you have to swerve around obstacles and sometimes it's best to just plow through them.

i look forward to tlc getting going after the season premier. i hope you'll be a major contributor over there as well.

10/03/2006 8:12 AM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Oxillini,

Glad you liked the analogy. It kind of works well with my concept of soul and body. Sometimes as a driver you want to go somewhere but the car is broken or not capable of getting there, or like an old car of mine you try to indicate left and all the hazard warning lights flash instead!

10/03/2006 8:37 AM  
Blogger Love Pirate 77 said...

Dark Angel
I like your ideas about fate and free will. However, since I don't actually believe in fate, I think I would say that, for me at least, it's like the "Two Roads Diverged in a Yellow Wood" analogy. In that, there are an infinite number of roads, and that we can choose which one we follow either based on where it leads or the road conditions. Some are easy to drive, set the cruise control (like my 100 mile round trip commute, also), and some require 4WD, an engine snorkel and snow chains. Some choose to follow a road others have ridden, and some choose to blaze their own trail, through unexplored terrain. What I do like about your explanation, is that we get the choice of how we want to travel the road we've chosen, and we even get to turn around, or set off on a new road whenever we like.

Think of it this way. By being concerned about driving, and worried about it, you show much more concern and respect than the average driver does. :)

10/03/2006 9:04 AM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

One of the worst parts is that people who haven't experienced it don't understand what you're going through.

David, oh so true! Its getting alot better in recent years but there are still plenty of people that don't understand it or think that people that are depressed are just having a bad day. One of the worst things for me was that it was so frightening to feel the way I did and not be able to "think" my way out of it....an indication that the problem is, at least in part, biochemical in nature.

I am so glad to see such open sharing about this and other topics here :):) People fear what they do not understand, so the more people understand depression and related issues, the better ;) I was very glad to see Evangeline Lily come forth with her struggle with depression.


10/03/2006 7:53 PM  
Blogger lostgrrl said...

Hi! The The LOST Community Message Board is up and running! The message board includes a thread entitled Stories of the LOST for anyone who would like to continue discussions started here in a message board format.

David will be posting this link here on the blog when he and the Clues Team returns from vacation.


10/03/2006 8:00 PM  
Blogger Dark Angel said...

Hi Guys,

I think choice is very important, without choice how can we be responsible for our own actions? If fate is absaloute then for every action we have then excuse - It was God's Will or I was predetirmened to do it. However with choice and free will we always have the option to say no, to turn around, to make another choice. To use a bible analogy Adam had a choice whether or not to eat the apple, he could (and did)go against God's will and take the consequences, hell I would of probably done the same thing.

Of course you could argue that free will is just an illusion that actually Adam was always going to the apple, that it was all part of the big plan BUT as for me the story is just a creation myth, a metaphor, and not what actually happened it is the obvious message which is important, ie that Mankind has free will but the cost of that free will is the burden of responsibility.

I think this theme is echoed in Lost, in a way our Losties have been dropped in their own Eden, a chance to start agin. They are free and they have a chance at redemption but whilst fate might have brought them all to the island it is down to each individual if and how he/she redeems themselves.

Lostgrrl I agree the openess here is great. A lot of us have quite different beliefs and backgrounds but we all have a lot that we can learn from each other, and even if you disagree with, for example my view, in doing so you have an opportunity to question what you believe and possibly strengthen that belief as a result.

10/04/2006 3:05 AM  

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